Jeremy Laura: Searching for answers

I think you mean Timashov, not Namestnikov Jeremy.

I think you mean Timashov, not Namestnikov Jeremy.
- Bartacus

You’re absolutely right. I’m so sorry B, fixing now

You’re absolutely right. I’m so sorry B, fixing now
- Jeremy Laura

Stiil with ya Bro!

Keep tanking...collect drafts picks...and let stevie Y draft his ass off.

See you in 4 years.

Stiil with ya Bro!

- HenryHockey

Thanks H2. Been a rough week

Evenin', J & Friends. Another stark revelation about our favoured sport and the challenges facing not only hockey, but many other sports as well.

You've done a good job of broaching the subject of financial conditions very well over several posts. The reality is hidden in the team's ledgers. Once those are released, I think the die-hard fans will need heart paddles. I wonder if some of the "lower tier" teams may have to close up shop....yes, it's that bad in sports.

Look at rugby. I played for 19 years, great sport, watch it every chance I get and try to provide some coaching when I can...until the COVID issue. Many pro teams in England are facing huge deficits. Many teams are slashing salary & staff. Now, rugby is a bit of a tough sell as the sport has only been "professional" for around 25yrs (previously it was ALL amateur). In the Gallagher Premiership (pro league in England) teams, WELL-established, historic teams are facing the choice of closing operations down due to the lack of funding because....yup, NO fans. It's so bad internationally, that events previously scheduled (such as the New Zealand All Blacks Northern Hemisphere Fall tour) may be cancelled, their pro leagues (rugby has international, regional, and country level competitions) aren't travelling due to to lack of funds from.....YUP; FANS. The Rugby Championship (Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, and South Africa) is in danger of being scaled back or cancelled because the financials aren't there, because...YUP; FANS. New Zealand has allowed full stands at matches....rugby is almost a religion in New Zealand (winningest professional/major sports team in the world with well over 93% win-rate over the past 100yrs....epitome of success and popularity). The reason I point this out is because, despite the previously resounding success of the All Blacks & rugby in New Zealand and England (where rugby was born....think about that), teams are going flat-broke.

So, for those who read this blog, look globally at how truly desperate sports teams are to get an inclination of what's in store for US professional sports....but most-importantly, hockey. Fans, this future holds certain uncertainty. No matter what we think we'll see, we won't see the best "good news, everything is coming up roses and all's right in the hockey world" for quite some time.

So, what can WE do? Well, we can't go to games, we can't buy a beer or 12 at LCA, we can't watch games on TV....But we can snag swag on-line from the TEAM sites, we can email/snail-mail/call the Wings and let them know when the time comes, we're going to beat the doors down to be 1st in line for tickets, we can let them know we care, we're waiting, we're faithful, we'll fill the seats when we're allowed. And we can hope. Oh, yeah....and we can continue to read & post to Jeremey's blog!!!!

This is America. We are strong. We are resilient. We are true to those things that have meaning to us: God, Sports, Family, Home... And we will be true to those things to get us to those brighter days. When that time comes, we'll look back on COVID as a royal pain in the rump. But we'll hold our heads high and proclaim: WE WERE ALWAYS WINGS FANS!

Keep tanking...collect drafts picks...and let stevie Y draft his ass off.

See you in 4 years.
- bruceflyers

Who lit the fuse on your tampon?

Sorry, Jeremy, that was crude of me. Keep forgetting this guy's a prime example of what NOT to be like. Apologies for letting myself be lowered to his juvenile level.

Who lit the fuse on your tampon?

Sorry, Jeremy, that was crude of me. Keep forgetting this guy's a prime example of what NOT to be like. Apologies for letting myself be lowered to his juvenile level.
- mcmastermike1968

You’re awesome brother. Never worry

This is America. We are strong. We are resilient. We are true to those things that have meaning to us: God, Sports, Family, Home... And we will be true to those things to get us to those brighter days. When that time comes, we'll look back on COVID as a royal pain in the rump. But we'll hold our heads high and proclaim: WE WERE ALWAYS WINGS FANS!

It’s funny, I started watching Rugby a year ago. That is a rough sport! Some of those European stadiums house 30k fans and up! The revenues are shocking. Very well done sir

Hawks fan coming in peace. I saw the title "Searching for answers" and it piqued my interest. The Hawks seemed to follow the Wings in team trajectory of down, up and then down again, with the Hawks 5-7'ish years behind the Wings.

The reason I'm stopping in is to get Wings' fans perspective on how things were handled from the glory days of Lidstrom/Datsyuk/Zetterberg to the post dynasty years. The Hawks are in that same glidepath with Kane/Toews/Keith where it's apparent the dynasty days are gone ... so now what do we do? Should the Hawks trade Kane/Toews/Keith to expedite the rebuild or try some half steps to get Cup competitive again?

I realize the Wings/Hawks situations aren't exactly the same, but based on the experience of how the Wings handled it - what would be your advice?

Hawks fan coming in peace. I saw the title "Searching for answers" and it piqued my interest. The Hawks seemed to follow the Wings in team trajectory of down, up and then down again, with the Hawks 5-7'ish years behind the Wings.

The reason I'm stopping in is to get Wings' fans perspective on how things were handled from the glory days of Lidstrom/Datsyuk/Zetterberg to the post dynasty years. The Hawks are in that same glidepath with Kane/Toews/Keith where it's apparent the dynasty days are gone ... so now what do we do? Should the Hawks trade Kane/Toews/Keith to expedite the rebuild or try some half steps to get Cup competitive again?

I realize the Wings/Hawks situations aren't exactly the same, but based on the experience of how the Wings handled it - what would be your advice?
- EbonyRaptor

Thanks for stopping by!! J runs a really good blog with some really good insights, probing questions, and respect for FANS. So, whilst this is a WINGS blog, it's populated with HOCKEY fans.

So, I would opine that the 'Hawks situation right now is incredibly unique. The fact that we're dealing with COVID financials has really changed the landscape of hockey as a whole, so any advice we might give you would be tainted with that in mind. I think that the 'Hawks are in a bit of a different boat in that the Family Bowman don't deal in wasted/bloated contracts like the previous GM did (see, Neilson, Abdelkader, et. al...), so you're really in a better situation from that perspective. I'd say that if any moves would need to be made (in a COVIDless environment), it would've be to shop a previous marquee player (Towes, for example...) to get a couple of solid prospects and maybe a strong draft position to begin a rebuild. Before COVID, I'd say rebuilding on the fly is a VERY tough thing to do, but Stan's a relatively smart guy from a strong family lineage of hockey smarts. The only caveat I would have is that Scotty was so successful because there was no cap. The Wings literally bought a cup with guys like Robitaille, Hull, Shanny, Chelly, The Dominator, etc... But Scotty's also one of the very best at getting guys to play for the TEAM vs the Paycheck, which is something J alludes to in this post - players playing for dollars instead of the glory of Lord Stanley. Sadly, hockey...being the last of the true sports played by players FOR the sport...is falling into the abyss of the almighty dollar ruling the roster. I don't think the 'Hawks have that issue, though. Your guys (and quite a few of the CURRENT Wings) still play for the Cup.

I'd have to say, all of the above considered, that all teams need to wait out the COVID days, do a deep-dive into the financials, and see what makes sense. But, sooner or later, the Kanes, Keiths, and Towes will need to be shopped for younger, faster players.....who want a paycheck and not a name on "some piece of metal',

And, by the way, you guys are an Original Six team, so, from my seat, you're MORE than welcome to drop by for a coffee and a chat, brother!!!

[quote=Jeremy Laura]

It is rough. When I started playing I was stationed in Japan, was 6'1, 225-230lbs, I was BIG. I played with factory workers, firemen, Japan Self-Defense Forces guys...we were all amateurs, playing for the love of the game and the post-game "festivities". The guys now are MONSTERS. Props who stand 6'5, 320lbs (Kiwis, Argentinians...). The All Blacks have a guy John Afoa (former player, prop) who is 6'4, 330lbs. The game changed when it became professional. Think of this (alluding to my post just above); England fielded an international team that had several teachers, a "barrister" and multiple stone-masons who played for their COUNTRY and a per diem only. Travel was funded by the governing body based on dues paid per player across the country. And this goes to your original post, J: Guys now-a-days only play for a check. Rugby players still hold allegiance to the game ton a large degree (I know a few former US Eagles players, so this isn't conjecture). They wanted to be part of the chase for the Webb-Ellis Cup (Rugby World Cup trophy named after William Webb-Ellis - founder of the game). We used to have players that played for Lord Stanley's glory, but not so much anymore. Guys get butt-hurt because they're a healthy scratch, they get sh***y attitudes, challenge coaches (what was the draft-pick who said he couldn't play under a certain system???!!!??? ). Gimme a friggin' break, dude. If you aren't smart enough to do something to be productive with what money you earn now, or be successful in LIFE, what good are you?!?!?! Your playing days end and there's still life to live. I always thought how cool it would be to have my name on THE Cup as a kid skating in the corn fields....most players today forgot about that dream.

But, professional athletes are in for a very rude awakening post-COVID: I think people will realize that Family, Friends, LIFE is a bit more important than a GAME. I might be wrong, but this is the lesson I've taken from the past few months....PEOPLE mean something. Games are for relaxing and having fun, meant to be PLAYED. They don't say "I work hockey", they say "I play hockey."

Just my two cents....

And, by the way, you guys are an Original Six team, so, from my seat, you're MORE than welcome to drop by for a coffee and a chat, brother!!!
- mcmastermike1968

Thanks, and I've stopped by a few times before over the years. Not to blow smoke up your butt but I've always found, for the most part, Wings fans are not only knowledgeable but also clear minded on the assessment of the team - there's less koolaid drinking by Wings fans than most other fanbases.

The Hawks made it official last week when they announced they were going to infuse more young players into the lineup - meaning the strategic direction has changed from one of trying to win the Cup with the old core players to one of rebuilding a new core group with young players. They've tried to have it both ways the last couple years and it hasn't worked. Toews has spoken out that he's not happy about it and I suspect Keith feels the same. Not sure about Kane. But that's the new direction so now the question is whether or not to leverage the old core guys to get prospects/picks while they are still playing at a high level - the old Branch Rickey philosophy of trading a player a year too early rather than a year too late.

I know the circumstances were different for the Wings old core group with Lidstrom retiring, Datsyuk deciding to go home and play in Russia and injuries taking Zetterberg out. But, following the 07/08 Cup win, they had 4 more years of Lidstrom before he retired and a bunch more years of Dats and Zetts. Do Wings fans now look back and wish they had traded them to expedite the rebuild or was there a loyalty factor that made that almost unthinkable? That seems to be the divide in Hawks' fans thinking - some think it's almost like blasphemy to even think about Toews or Kane playing for another team.

Hawks fan coming in peace. I saw the title "Searching for answers" and it piqued my interest. The Hawks seemed to follow the Wings in team trajectory of down, up and then down again, with the Hawks 5-7'ish years behind the Wings.

The reason I'm stopping in is to get Wings' fans perspective on how things were handled from the glory days of Lidstrom/Datsyuk/Zetterberg to the post dynasty years. The Hawks are in that same glidepath with Kane/Toews/Keith where it's apparent the dynasty days are gone ... so now what do we do? Should the Hawks trade Kane/Toews/Keith to expedite the rebuild or try some half steps to get Cup competitive again?

I realize the Wings/Hawks situations aren't exactly the same, but based on the experience of how the Wings handled it - what would be your advice?
- EbonyRaptor

I still think the your big 3 will decide to give up their Hawk jerseys to chase another cup. I would include Seabrook, but I think he will be untradeable. And face it, Stan would gladly reap a harvest of assets that Patty Kane would bring, at least a first, a grade A prospect and a $5-6M AAV NHLer.....some say more. It certainly would shave some time off the rebuild. I wish the Wings had some aging players that would bring in as much in a trade!

They've tried to have it both ways the last couple years and it hasn't worked. Toews has spoken out that he's not happy about it and I suspect Keith feels the same. Not sure about Kane.

I know the circumstances were different for the Wings old core group with Lidstrom retiring, Datsyuk deciding to go home and play in Russia and injuries taking Zetterberg out. But, following the 07/08 Cup win, they had 4 more years of Lidstrom before he retired and a bunch more years of Dats and Zetts. Do Wings fans now look back and wish they had traded them to expedite the rebuild or was there a loyalty factor that made that almost unthinkable? That seems to be the divide in Hawks' fans thinking - some think it's almost like blasphemy to even think about Toews or Kane playing for another team.
- EbonyRaptor

I think those guys (BOLD above) are cultural players; Guys who live an ethos and instill certain values within an organizations players. They give the team an intangible that cannot be replicated by a paycheck or coach. Lindstrom & Zetterburg were those guys (the same as Toes & Kane) who demand certain things of the new guys that you cannot replace. Think of seeing any of those 4 above playing someplace else and losing the continuing of a cultural mind-set. Just can't see that happening in yesterday's game. I think there's still a need for those types of players though (look how Larkin was mentored by Z, for example). I just can't see the 'Hawks losing Kane or Towes....the mentorship, leadership, cultural impact would be too devastating. BUT, Detroit was unique in that The Captain begat Lidstrom, who begat Zetterburg/Kronwall, who begat Larkin. There's NO price one can put on those types of players; guys who will ALWAYS wear the Winged Wheel (or the Chief Blackhawk emblem) because THEY are the team, the spirit, the heart, the face of a CULTURE and a team. The 'Hawks are different because they have 2 of those guys at the same time, and that's more difficult to assess. For me; KEEP THEM, but Keith can move on!!

Hawks fan coming in peace. I saw the title "Searching for answers" and it piqued my interest. The Hawks seemed to follow the Wings in team trajectory of down, up and then down again, with the Hawks 5-7'ish years behind the Wings.

The reason I'm stopping in is to get Wings' fans perspective on how things were handled from the glory days of Lidstrom/Datsyuk/Zetterberg to the post dynasty years. The Hawks are in that same glidepath with Kane/Toews/Keith where it's apparent the dynasty days are gone ... so now what do we do? Should the Hawks trade Kane/Toews/Keith to expedite the rebuild or try some half steps to get Cup competitive again?

I realize the Wings/Hawks situations aren't exactly the same, but based on the experience of how the Wings handled it - what would be your advice?
- EbonyRaptor

It’s funny, looking back the Wings actually tested the waters using some polls. When asked what mattered to fans, the consecutive playoff appearances were at the top. So, the team milked that until it went dry.

The windows close so much faster (it seems). But, you still have to sell tickets. Kane and Toews bring fans in. Pav and Z and Lidstrom did for us. If those two want to retire as Hawks, I respect that. Kane could bring a great return, but it could break his heart to do it. The team in Chicago gave so much to the city and fans (as did Detroit). It will be hard, but having leadership to help the kids is a huge bonus. I know that’s not a great answer. Keith, Seabrook, Toews and Kane are so important to the fans. Seabs will be done via injury. Just pray for really good drafting and development. Strome, Debrincat are really good pieces already

I know the circumstances were different for the Wings old core group with Lidstrom retiring, Datsyuk deciding to go home and play in Russia and injuries taking Zetterberg out. But, following the 07/08 Cup win, they had 4 more years of Lidstrom before he retired and a bunch more years of Dats and Zetts. Do Wings fans now look back and wish they had traded them to expedite the rebuild or was there a loyalty factor that made that almost unthinkable? That seems to be the divide in Hawks' fans thinking - some think it's almost like blasphemy to even think about Toews or Kane playing for another team.

If either or both are willing, the return would be a good one. Kane could add so much punch to a team. It would be huge to see him play next to Eichel. I feel like you have to let those guys have a say. If capt serious wants to be a hawk til the end, he’s earned it. I think he could bring a lot to teams lacking maturity.

I still think the your big 3 will decide to give up their Hawk jerseys to chase another cup. I would include Seabrook, but I think he will be untradeable. And face it, Stan would gladly reap a harvest of assets that Patty Kane would bring, at least a first, a grade A prospect and a $5-6M AAV NHLer.....some say more. It certainly would shave some time off the rebuild. I wish the Wings had some aging players that would bring in as much in a trade!
- HenryHockey

If they do, it will be a lucky team that gets them. Toews could really help the culture in Edmonton. Kane can score anywhere. Keith, man, I remember when he got the nickname “Duncan Teeth”. What a warrior. Salary retentions would be a must, but what a special group

I think those guys (BOLD above) are cultural players; Guys who live an ethos and instill certain values within an organizations players. They give the team an intangible that cannot be replicated by a paycheck or coach. Lindstrom & Zetterburg were those guys (the same as Toes & Kane) who demand certain things of the new guys that you cannot replace. Think of seeing any of those 4 above playing someplace else and losing the continuing of a cultural mind-set. Just can't see that happening in yesterday's game. I think there's still a need for those types of players though (look how Larkin was mentored by Z, for example). I just can't see the 'Hawks losing Kane or Towes....the mentorship, leadership, cultural impact would be too devastating. BUT, Detroit was unique in that The Captain begat Lidstrom, who begat Zetterburg/Kronwall, who begat Larkin. There's NO price one can put on those types of players; guys who will ALWAYS wear the Winged Wheel (or the Chief Blackhawk emblem) because THEY are the team, the spirit, the heart, the face of a CULTURE and a team. The 'Hawks are different because they have 2 of those guys at the same time, and that's more difficult to assess. For me; KEEP THEM, but Keith can move on!!
- mcmastermike1968

You’re absolutely right on culture. The team needs identity and it’s a special player to carry and hand off that torch.

If they do, it will be a lucky team that gets them. Toews could really help the culture in Edmonton. Kane can score anywhere. Keith, man, I remember when he got the nickname “Duncan Teeth”. What a warrior. Salary retentions would be a must, but what a special group
- Jeremy Laura

I agree that if the players want to chase the Cup one last time, the team should honour that wish, especially guys like we're speaking of; Generational players who gave the all to the team regardless of the price paid. The return for players like these would be awesome, for sure. Keith was a brute, wasn't he? Guy would wreck anyone in his way, great player, durable, fit in well with Toews & Kane....what a great 3 players to have, huh? They really do mirror Pav, Z, Kronner, don't they?

I still think the your big 3 will decide to give up their Hawk jerseys to chase another cup. I would include Seabrook, but I think he will be untradeable. And face it, Stan would gladly reap a harvest of assets that Patty Kane would bring, at least a first, a grade A prospect and a $5-6M AAV NHLer.....some say more. It certainly would shave some time off the rebuild. I wish the Wings had some aging players that would bring in as much in a trade!
- HenryHockey

Another consideration with trading T/K/K is the young players would benefit from the leadership and "learning how to win" that the old core players could provide if they were of the right mindset. So I think a solid argument can be made from either side. I've flip flopped on this over the past couple years when it seemed unlikely they could compete with the top teams in the league, and especially since Stan put out the official "new direction" last week.

The salary retention aspect is limited this offseason because 2 of the 3 retentions were used for trading Saad and Maatta - so only 1 left until next off season. It's so hard to know what a reasonable trade would be but I thought a trade with Buffalo where Kane and Dylan Cozens were the main pieces. Maybe the Hawks take back Okposo to make it work with Buffalo's cap space and a draft pick or two is added to even things out. Buffalo signed Taylor Hall and is on the verge of becoming a playoff contender. Kane going home to Buffalo would be a marketing bonanza for the Sabres and getting Kane for 3 more years at $4.5M AAV (Kane's AAV - Okposo's AAV) would be a very good deal for them. That should fetch Cozens and so the Hawks get a top-10 player from 2019 still with 3 years of ELC. Plus, that leaves 1 retention to maybe use to trade Toews.

It’s funny, looking back the Wings actually tested the waters using some polls. When asked what mattered to fans, the consecutive playoff appearances were at the top. So, the team milked that until it went dry.

The windows close so much faster (it seems). But, you still have to sell tickets. Kane and Toews bring fans in. Pav and Z and Lidstrom did for us. If those two want to retire as Hawks, I respect that. Kane could bring a great return, but it could break his heart to do it. The team in Chicago gave so much to the city and fans (as did Detroit). It will be hard, but having leadership to help the kids is a huge bonus. I know that’s not a great answer. Keith, Seabrook, Toews and Kane are so important to the fans. Seabs will be done via injury. Just pray for really good drafting and development. Strome, Debrincat are really good pieces already
- Jeremy Laura

It's tough to replace players like Lidstrom/Datzyuk/Zetterberg and Toews/Kane/Keith - those are HoF caliber players and there's no guarantee you'll get one in a draft or via prospect trade, let alone 3 of them. That's why it's so tempting to keep trying to win with those guys even past the point of it be probable/possible. The only guy we have in the system right now that has a chance to be that caliber player is Dach and he still has a long way to go to be a true difference maker. That's why I'm on the side of leveraging T/K/K for what we can get sooner than later.

You’re awesome brother. Never worry
- Jeremy Laura

Awesome jackass...yup!

[quote=Jeremy Laura]
And don’t forget all the millions of people around the world that you kill so that your billionaires can get richer and your poor can get poorer.